Benifits of aftermarket brake pads

[sliick2]

Friends, I'd like to ask the collective brain trust about the aftermarket brake pads & if there is enough positive to go ahead &

change to say Speigler,EBC-HH,or SBC's .I am a average rider type,not aggressive but not mellow either.I like to "USE" the FJR,

not "Abuse". Do the aftermarket pads eat up rotor's ? If that is the case, the stock pads are fine.I don't have stainless brake lines.

As I've read ,the rotor's,pads & stainless lines make a big difference. Would changing just the pads be worth it ? Thanks in advance.

Sliick2- ' 06 A model

 

[BrunDog]

Change the lines first. They make a huuuuuge difference, and despite the PITA installing them and making your own brackets, etc, it was worth it.

I have also (recently) upgraded to EBC HH pads, but I cannot tell you it was much of an upgrade yet, as they are still bedding in. Supposedly these and other ceramic blend pads do not eat rotors, but really, who cares? You would have to be doing a lot of hard-core braking, including stoppies, in order to eat these things down in short order. With normal riding, the engine braking makes up for a bunch of stopping.

If you want it all, do them both.

-BD

 

[Warchild]

Change the lines first. They make a huuuuuge difference, and despite the PITA installing them and making your own brackets, etc, it was worth it.

Strongly concur... this is the way to go if one is after serious braking ability.

Sadly, however, no one (to my knowledge) makes a stainless steel brake line kit for the 2006+ bikes. They are a substaintial change from the pre-2006 bikes, and also have that LBS system to deal with.

Re: brake pads. The OEM pads are actually quite good. Might as well stay with them unless you feel particularly adventurous and want to try other brands. We've had very good experience with the Carbone Lorrain pads, and there is nothing wrong with the Galfer and EBC's, too.

 

[afterburn]

I strongly disagree. Brakelines, especially of a new bike like the FJR rarely need replacing. They do not swell, despite tons of peoples claims. So called rubber lines have the steel inside, instead of the outside. The only difference sometimes is the internal diameter of the tubing, which is sometimes smaller for SS resulting in less travel. If the inside diameter of both are identical, I dare say you will NOT feel ANY difference between the lines, provided both have fresh fluid and have been properly bled.

The MAJOR contributing part of good brakes is replacing brake fluid regularly and properly getting the air out. It so happens that I would say more than 90% of the difference felt when replacing the lines is being caused by the new and fresh fluids. Not by the lines.

The downside of rubber lines is that the exposed rubber will deteriorate over time, as in excess of 5 years, to make it more poreus. This causes water vapor in the air get in to the lines and fluid, making them feel mushy as the water evaporates under braking causing tiny air bubbles in the fluid. Replacing fluids helps, but not for long. But again, we are talking lines that have been exposes to the elements in excess of 5 years.

As far as brake pads, EBC HH+ are shite. They have very low initial bite and are very temperature sensative. They brake harder heated up than when cold, you are more likely needing the brake power in an emergency when they are cold than really hot. Too hot, and they start to fade. They are also pretty aggressive in the wet and can cause more pucker moments you care to have in the rain.

The best pads I have had on the FJR (or any bike for that matter) are Dunlopad DP Sport HH+. These babies blow EBC and stock Yammie pads right out of the water with great initial bite, agressive brake power both stone cold and sizzling hot and no fading. I had these so hot both the front discs of my FJR were black instead of shiney stainless, and no degradation of braking power. In the wet they brake very very hard, but not too aggressively giving very good feel and control. Awesome pads.

 

[Barabus]

Afterburn,

Good info. When you say change the fluid often, what is your recomended interval?

 

[HaulinAshe]

Afterburn,
Good info. When you say change the fluid often, what is your recomended interval?

Do your first fluid change within 12,000 miles or one year. The OEM fluid does not last long.

Subsequent changes every 20,000 miles or one year. Both time and mileage affect the fluid equally.

IMO, stock Yamaha pads are pretty good. For racing I would pursue a different pad. But for general street riding the OEM Yami pads are hard to beat.

PM me if you have any difficulty getting a set. My local dealer accidentally ordered two complete sets instead of one. So I have two brand new sets of F&R Yami pads collecting dust. No, I won't give them away.

 

[FJRMGM]

Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all ---> " As far as brake pads, EBC HH+ are shite. They have very low initial bite".

I changed to the EBC HH pads when the stock front pads wore out and they make a VERY noticeable difference.

MUCH better stopping than stock pads.

Very pleased with them and am glad Gary McCoy at University Motors convinced me to go with them.

And I agree with changing brake and clutch fluids at least yearly. The clutch fluid is always nastier than the brakes.

 

[afterburn]

Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all ---> " As far as brake pads, EBC HH+ are shite. They have very low initial bite".
I changed to the EBC HH pads when the stock front pads wore out and they make a VERY noticeable difference.

MUCH better stopping than stock pads.

Very pleased with them and am glad Gary McCoy at University Motors convinced me to go with them.

And I agree with changing brake and clutch fluids at least yearly. The clutch fluid is always nastier than the brakes.

No offense, but just about any new pad will beat a worn pad. Worn pads versus new pads is not unlike old tires versus new tires. The fresh ones are better. If you want real stopping power, try a set of DP Sport next time. Those pads really transform the braking on the FJR. They're like hitting a brick wall compared. Compared to DP, EBC does not have good bite.

SPD418 (front, 2001-2005)

SDP965 (front, 2006-)

https://www.dp-brakes.com

No affiliation, only happy customer for the last 15 years. For what it's worth, with every bike I experiment with pads to find the best one. I have tried Ferodo, Carbon Lorraine, EBC, Lucas, Nissin, OEM and a few others I can't remember on just about all my bikes. And I have always come back to DP. Although I have to admit, I really really liked the Nissin pads for my Honda VFR.

 

[JamesK]

No offense, but just about any new pad will beat a worn pad. Worn pads versus new pads is not unlike old tires versus new tires. The fresh ones are better. If you want real stopping power, try a set of DP Sport next time. Those pads really transform the braking on the FJR. They're like hitting a brick wall compared. Compared to DP, EBC does not have good bite.

SPD418 (front, 2001-2005)

SDP965 (front, 2006-)

<a href="https://www.dp-brakes.com" target="_blank">https://www.dp-brakes.com</a>

No affiliation, only happy customer for the last 15 years. For what it's worth, with every bike I experiment with pads to find the best one. I have tried Ferodo, Carbon Lorraine, EBC, Lucas, Nissin, OEM and a few others I can't remember on just about all my bikes. And I have always come back to DP. Although I have to admit, I really really liked the Nissin pads for my Honda VFR.

Thanks for the info Afterburn, I might try a set sometime in the future when money is less tight.

I just priced up a set for the GenII FJR, and damn these things are pricey:

=87861"]Front: $77 per card (2 pads) * 4 for a GenII = $308

=87374"]Rear: $47 per card (2 pads) * 1 = $47

So a brake pad kit for a GenII would cost $355 plus shipping.

I just picked up a full EBC HH Sintered brake pad kit for my '07 on eBay for $129 plus $41 shipping to Japan (talk about outrageous prices :angry: )

I'm in need of new rotors, so going with the EBC XC series (Square Drive) contoured on the front and their standard contoured on the Rear. From what EBC tech explained their rotors will not be chewed up by the HH pads...

 

[RaYzerman19]

Sadly, however, no one (to my knowledge) makes a stainless steel brake line kit for the 2006+ bikes. They are a substaintial change from the pre-2006 bikes, and also have that LBS system to deal with.

I think this is recent info..... I was doing a search for a clutch line (which seems to be common Gen 1 & 2) and eventually ended up in Galfer's 2010 catalog.... Galfer part numbers.....

'03-'05 Non-ABS = D336-2 & D336-3 fronts, D336-R rear and D336-CL clutch

'04-'05 ABS = D420-9 complete kit includes rear and clutch

'06-'07 ABS = D605-9 complete kit, etc.

'08-'09 ABS = D701-7 complete kit, etc.

There is no breakdown of the rear hoses, but check of the fische shows they are different as listed.

The clutch line is common to all, D336-CL will do it.

Have not searched for other manufacturers of stainless lines.

 

[Canadian FJR]

Upgrade the front brake lines and go with Carbone Lorrain pads. You will feel a difference.

(I see no need in changing the lines in the rear)

Canadian FJR

 

[Cowcop]

This is a slightly different way of looking at the results of steel brake lines. I changed lines on all four corners of my diesel pickup and could feel a small improvement at normal speeds. When towing, however, there was a good improvement in the operation of the brakes. :yahoo: A small caviat here, the OEM's were 11 years old and needed to be changed, so I would have to agree with AFTERBURN. You will not notice any grand difference until you truly work the system hard, so save your bucks till the OEM lines need to be changed, then go for it.

Just another opinion and we know what they can be worth...LOL :assassin:

 

[Fred W]

I strongly disagree. Brakelines, especially of a new bike like the FJR rarely need replacing. They do not swell, despite tons of peoples claims. So called rubber lines have the steel inside, instead of the outside. The only difference sometimes is the internal diameter of the tubing, which is sometimes smaller for SS resulting in less travel. If the inside diameter of both are identical, I dare say you will NOT feel ANY difference between the lines, provided both have fresh fluid and have been properly bled.

Guess I missed this when it was first posted.

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. The diameter of the brake lines and hoses have no effect on the lever travel. The only diameters that do effect lever travel are the diameters of the master and slave cylinders. If the hoses are of a smaller diameter it will result in faster flow through the smaller lines, but the volume of flow will be the same and so will the lever travel. The only way that the brake lines would ever reduce the lever travel is if the old ones were expanding under pressure.

 

[Cowcop]

"If the hoses are of a smaller diameter it will result in faster flow through the smaller lines, but the volume of flow will be the same..."

This is true.

"The only way that the brake lines would ever reduce the lever travel is if the old ones were expanding under pressure."

Why is this true? It would seem that the lever would travel further to get the same fluid thru the lines if they were bulging. If you have air in the line, the lever travels further etc. THis is probably a poor analogy due to the air being compressed, but you understand what I am trying to find out. :huh:

No strong words here.....just trying to learn.

 

[Fred W]

"If the hoses are of a smaller diameter it will result in faster flow through the smaller lines, but the volume of flow will be the same..."

This is true.

"The only way that the brake lines would ever reduce the lever travel is if the old ones were expanding under pressure."

Why is this true? It would seem that the lever would travel further to get the same fluid thru the lines if they were bulging. :huh:

I think we are saying the same thing above. The diameter of the brake hose is insignificant. You can change it all you want and the lever travel (and effort, and feel) would stay the same.

But if a hose bulges under pressure it would take increased lever travel to do the same work, giving the brakes a mushy feel.

 

[Cowcop]

Thanks!

 

[RinconVTR]

I strongly disagree. Brakelines, especially of a new bike like the FJR rarely need replacing. They do not swell, despite tons of peoples claims. So called rubber lines have the steel inside, instead of the outside. The only difference sometimes is the internal diameter of the tubing, which is sometimes smaller for SS resulting in less travel. If the inside diameter of both are identical, I dare say you will NOT feel ANY difference between the lines, provided both have fresh fluid and have been properly bled.

I call 100% BS.

Every bike I have owned (except the FJR) I have replaced the line on AFTER replacing the fluid upon first getting the bike (I always replaced all fluids one used bikes I buy). EVERY bike regained a rock solid lever when new lines were added vs being flushed and bled. Yes they were stainless braided replacements, but OEM rubber probably would have given the same result, and eventually aged and softened just enough to feel in the lever.

The typical rubber lines DO NOT have steel braiding inside them. At least none that I have cut, be it motorcycle OR automotive. And I had often cut them just for shits and giggles cause I'm an engineer. I like destroying things to see how they're made.

First of all, they were all cut with razor blades. The braiding inside was woven polymer, I dont know what type. Rubber on the inside, rubber on the outside, sometimes layers of braiding with rubbing in between. Its too bad I just tossed the OEM lines from my last bike (SV1000s) just days ago, I'd cut one for you and take a pic.

And as said by others, I repeat, the ID of the line has no bearing on anything for braking systems. You could make it too small I suppose, but you're talking about a ridiculously small ID to cause a restriction.

The FJR however has something other than rubber lines that I normally see. But I havent looked into what they are.

EDIT: Tried searching for a pic of cut brake hose and found this. No need to take my word now...

https://www.goodyearep.com/ProductListing.aspx?folderid=1040

CRAP! Double Edit! I forgot to mention...I give a strong +1 and two thumbs up for Dunlopad's!!!

 

[RZ350]

I'll just throw my two cents in here since I was reading through the 20 pages of general brake description in the FSM...

A Caution from the FSM:

"Because the balance between the right front brake caliper and rear brake caliper in the unified brake system is determined mechanically, be sure to use the specified brake pads."

With the unified (linked) brake system on the Gen II's, there are also pressure set points in the Metering and Proportioning valves based on (I assume) the braking characteristics of the OEM pad material.

Probably just a way for Yamaha to scare you into buying OEM, but there's always a slight chance a pad set with different material may adversely affect all this somehow. You guys considering alternate sources should probably swap ALL pads at the same time to minimize any ill-effects to the proportioning between front and rear.

 

[Fred W]

Good call RZ. If you are going to replace the brake pads up front with the less expensive aftermarket ones of a different compound it would make sense to use the same ones for all positions, including the back. On second gens.

We superior 1st gen'ers don't have no steenkin' Linked Brake System so we can use whatever we want.

Plus our OEM brake pads are cheaper anyway.