Dynojet Research Fine = $ 1 million

[Last Chance]

This is a bummer. I was looking forward to buying an affordable PC for my 05. I guess I'll just keep my eyes out for a used one when the prices go up.

And you are waiting for what?

PCIII's in stock and shipping. $274.50 after the forum discount.

Power Commander at Bike Effects

See discount information below.

Just goes to show you can't a good capitalist down! :clapping:

Hmmmmm! Mad Mike, I think we should suggest to the CARB that they should fine the distributer who sells this unlawful device to the unsuspecting public.

LC

 

[twowheelnut]

I'm concerned more about the long-term impact of more and more regulations on motorcycles in general.

Just look at Honda. Everyone bitches about their lack of product or the product becoming more and more scooter-like. Now, just why do you think that is? Easy. They've seen the future in the regulatory crystal ball and are preparing for it now.

I give full-on sport bikes 5, maybe 10 more years before they are no longer available.

Why would a state like California go after motorcycle transportation in such a way when they should be encouraging the 2 wheel culture?

They are not going singularly after motorcycles. The regulate all motor vehicles. They've gone after the main automotive industry, the aftermarket AI, custom hotrod builders, grey imports, etc, etc, etc. So there is history and precedent.

People want clean air and water, but they can't have that without regulation. It's pretty simple, really.

The company that made the equipment should not get fined though. The individual who actually installed the unit should be fined, since the unit itself does not automatically change the emissions (0 map).
It's almost like fining yamaha with speeding fines, because I went to fast on the FJR.

Same thing as how all you hippies can sell water pipes in a head shop as long as they don't call it a bong! It's not the shops problem what you do with your water pipe!

The company that made the equipment sold their product in a state that specifically prohibits certain modifications to the emissions systems. This is the point. If they knowingly did sell these units, then they are at fault.

Further, the consumer will be nicked when the time comes for MC smogging (and it will come), when his or her bike fails because of those mods and devices.

Ok, so what's to stop someone from having a PCIII, and aftermarket pipes living in California, and when it's time for inspection, he pulls the PCIII (not like that takes a rocket scientist) and puts on his OEM mufflers (again, a quick job), gets it inspected, and then does the reverse switcheroo? Or even better... change the PCIII map back to stock...
Answer... not a thing. Therefore, the sum total effect of all this will be a few more days every other year swapping bike parts.

True to a point. There have been a couple of instances where Johnny Law has cited folks with aftermarket pipes. There will come a time when you'll get tagged for nothing more than non-OEM pipes on a regular basis.

 

[madmike2]

Hmmmmm! Mad Mike, I think we should suggest to the CARB that they should fine the distributer who sells this unlawful device to the unsuspecting public.
LC

1.) Motorcyclists remind me of the hotrodders of the '50s &'60s...those who are willing to modify their vehicles for perfomance or just for fun.

2.) Government employees will do as they are told, especially when it comes to enforcement of the law.

My personal concern is that if things continue along the lines they are headed the state governments will be forced to examine all motor vehicles in order to receive their share of the federal highway allowance for contruction and maintenance of our highway system Just as there are now "inspection only" stations in California for smog compliance, it would not be that difficult for any state to require an inspection by the dealer of any motorcycle for registration renewal. Although a "smog station" may not be able to tell if a particular motorcycle is within compliance, the dealer would know. Then we could be looking at:

Hourly rate for inspection...cost of the certificate...etc. IIRC, my last smog cert. for my pickup was around $75 for the dyno test and the cert.

Couple that with the reported issue that motorcycles are not included in the newest freeway plans being made on a national level (Fred Rau in MCN about 3 months ago) and one could drive themselves into a frenzy or a deep funk.

I shall continue to ride my bike in its OEM state and think positive thoughts!

I repeat: "Every snowflake in an avalanche cries out, 'It's not my fault!'" [SIZE=8pt]Checkoslovakian Proverb[/SIZE]

Edit: I typed while TWN was posting. Great minds think along the same lines.

 

[Ignacio]

The company that made the equipment sold their product in a state that specifically prohibits certain modifications to the emissions systems. This is the point. If they knowingly did sell these units, then they are at fault.

And from the original source it looks like Dyonjet accepted the fine as is. They didn't contest it and I'm sure they had various options to do it.

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) announced recently that it concluded an investigation against Dynojet Research, Inc. At issue was the company's "Power Commander" that can be used to alter the air-fuel mixture and engine timing of on- and off-road motorcycles. CARB said that the installation of these devices would adversely affect the emissions control systems of vehicles that were certified by the original equipment manufacturers to comply with the agency's emissions standards. Dynojet has now certified a California version of the "Power Commander" and has agreed to pay $1,000,000 in penalties to the California Air Pollution Control Fund.

So, all the banter about how they should fight it or do x or y is supposition at this point. I'm sure there's more to the story on their rationale, but Dynojet has decided to move on. It will probably make the older Power Commanders hold their value on the secondary market.

 

[Fred W]

The company that made the equipment sold their product in a state that specifically prohibits certain modifications to the emissions systems. This is the point. If they knowingly did sell these units, then they are at fault.

And from the original source it looks like Dyonjet accepted the fine as is. They didn't contest it and I'm sure they had various options to do it.

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) announced recently that it concluded an investigation against Dynojet Research, Inc. At issue was the company's "Power Commander" that can be used to alter the air-fuel mixture and engine timing of on- and off-road motorcycles. CARB said that the installation of these devices would adversely affect the emissions control systems of vehicles that were certified by the original equipment manufacturers to comply with the agency's emissions standards. Dynojet has now certified a California version of the "Power Commander" and has agreed to pay $1,000,000 in penalties to the California Air Pollution Control Fund.

So, all the banter about how they should fight it or do x or y is supposition at this point. I'm sure there's more to the story on their rationale, but Dynojet has decided to move on. It will probably make the older Power Commanders hold their value on the secondary market.

It appears from their web site that they are still selling them.

 

[madmike2]

It appears from their web site that they are still selling them.

I'll bet they won't send them to a California mailing address and maybe not to anyone with a California billing address.

 

[evil_henchman]

It appears from their web site that they are still selling them.

I'll bet they won't send them to a California mailing address and maybe not to anyone with a California billing address.

This kind of thing is nothing new for California and it goes way beyond motor vehicles. There's a long list of things banned in this state. I don't have a PC nor do I want one. But if I did, thank god for out of state friends and family!

:fuck: Da Man!

 

[exskibum]

This kind of thing is nothing new for California and it goes way beyond motor vehicles. There's a long list of things banned in this state.

Exactly. Businesses running older, non-compliant diesel engines in equipment in California are selling that equipment to buyers in other states or into Mexico now. Problem is that to make them compliant with Calif. emissions standards is often so much more expensive than the equipment is worth that selling the stuff out of the state is the only expedient and fiscally prudent alternative. I have a client that just got rid of an old backhoe for that reason. I can't remember when the compliance date is, but it either occurred on the first of this year or is upcoming soon.

 

[twowheelnut]

I'll bet they won't send them to a California mailing address and maybe not to anyone with a California billing address.

So what you're saying is; skooter can finally find employment as a freight forwarding engineer? :lol:

 

[madmike2]

I'll bet they won't send them to a California mailing address and maybe not to anyone with a California billing address.

So what you're saying is; skooter can finally find employment as a freight forwarding engineer? :lol:

I thought he WAS in that business, though in a different capacity. :lol:

 

[HaulinAshe]

I suspect that DynoJet is doing some scrambling and heavy reacting to the whopper fine they just landed. Officially restricting their product for off-road use only and selling a street product that still obeys the ozone layer police by including feedback from the 02 sensor, would be a good way to soothe the feds.

I have to admit to being VERY tempted to remove my PC-III with the new ECU on the 07. That ECU programs is sooooo much better that I have returned to the stock PC-III map. Who knows, the Dyno product may not be necessary for a decent run with the new ECU. Come March, I may just unplug the PC-III and run up to the mountains to find out.

 

[radman]

Interestingly, Minnesota implemented a vehicle emissions testing program in the early 90's. Built all sorts of testing stations etc-we were all gonna be breathing so much better once the guv put the hammer down, and the greenies were ecstatic. 10 years later, it was all dismantled, and Minnesota no longer tests vehicles. Why? They discovered that with the way vehicles are now set up, if they were out of compliance, they generally ran like shit-in other words, low emissions coincided with decent running motors, something most owners wanted anyway. Second, they exempted (IIRC) older vehicles (like 1974 and older) as I recall, and vehicles built after that had a limit on how much the repairs would have to cost to be compliant, up to late model (like 5 years old or so), which meant that new vehicles would be under warranty for the most part, and would have been fixed anyway. Vehicles that fell between the cracks were for the most part new enough where they would have been fixed anyway, just because they ran like shit if emissions systems were out of whack. End game was, no improvement was noted by EPA testing at key areas of the Twin Cities that could be traced to testing-only to the fact that new cars slowly replacing the older ones would have the same effect on air quality sooner or later in any case, and so testing was eliminated, to the relief of all but those who made money off of so called wonder chemicals etc. So I call BS on California's test crap, and on any state that demands owners cough up the dough to "clean the air". It's simply taxation by other means, and once in place, supported by those who profit from it.

 

[wheatonFJR]

:clapping: :clapping:

 

[burnergold2B]

They are not going singularly after motorcycles. The regulate all motor vehicles. They've gone after the main automotive industry, the aftermarket AI, custom hotrod builders, grey imports, etc, etc, etc. So there is history and precedent.
People want clean air and water, but they can't have that without regulation. It's pretty simple, really.

Let me clarify my point, I guess. I understand that CARB regulates more than motorcycles.

If cleaner air and water is the goal, encouraging more people to run vehicles that get 40-100 miles per gallon (ie. motorcycles) would be the solution and not one of the focus points of regulation/strangulation. Yes, it is pretty simple, really.

Yes, we need regulation to maintain cleaner waters and air quality. How does fining DynoJet make the air and water quality improve? They can simply write the fine off their gross income as an operating expense, AND their net income as a regular expense. Where's the solution? Where does the $1million actually go to?

I haven't been to Cal. since '96 so I'm out of touch with the congestion, smog, and pollution reality. Is the smog still pretty bad or are floods and fires and mudslides the main environmental hazzards now?

 

[Ignacio]

If cleaner air and water is the goal, encouraging more people to run vehicles that get 40-100 miles per gallon (ie. motorcycles) would be the solution and not one of the focus points of regulation/strangulation. Yes, it is pretty simple, really.

Not necessarily. Don't assume high mileage automatically equals reduced emissions. It's actually also related to extra emissions equipment and other standards. According to the EPA motorcycles emit more pollution per mile than cars even some SUVs. Clicky here.

How does fining DynoJet make the air and water quality improve? They can simply write the fine off their gross income as an operating expense, AND their net income as a regular expense. Where's the solution?

A $1M fine is going to be noticed by even the largest business my friend. And one can imagine that the $1M was a compromise of a much more onerous and expensive option. This is the stick side of things and has quite an effect on business plans for future sales. My god, it's already consumed 4 pages on a thread by us...who haven't been actually affected in anyway! You can bet Dyonjet and it's peers are taking notice. This seems a well orchestrated thwack with a stick.

Where does the $1million actually go to?

I don't know specifically...you're going to have to research it. However, I've generally found that fines levied by any regulation agency aren't usually of the level to be self-supporting....meaning these agencies don't levy fines to fill their own coffers.....unless you listen to the trolls in The Dungeon.

 

[SockMonkey]

I suspect that DynoJet is doing some scrambling and heavy reacting to the whopper fine they just landed.

Doubtful. This is what liability insurance is for. (It's highly unlikley that this fine will have any impact whatsoever on DynoJet's prices as some have suggested.) If any scrambling is being done, it's by DynoJet's insurance carrier.

 

[twowheelnut]

Let me clarify my point, I guess. I understand that CARB regulates more than motorcycles.
If cleaner air and water is the goal, encouraging more people to run vehicles that get 40-100 miles per gallon (ie. motorcycles) would be the solution and not one of the focus points of regulation/strangulation. Yes, it is pretty simple, really.

Yes, we need regulation to maintain cleaner waters and air quality. How does fining DynoJet make the air and water quality improve? They can simply write the fine off their gross income as an operating expense, AND their net income as a regular expense. Where's the solution? Where does the $1million actually go to?

I haven't been to Cal. since '96 so I'm out of touch with the congestion, smog, and pollution reality. Is the smog still pretty bad or are floods and fires and mudslides the main environmental hazzards now?

What Iggy said mostly, except for the last question of yours. Floods, mudslides and fires are not, for the most part, man-made. They have always existed to an extent. Smog is much improved over what it was even 10 years ago, much do in part to the actions of CARB, however strict or ridiculous their judgments may seem.

 

[evil_henchman]

According to the EPA motorcycles emit more pollution per mile than cars even some SUVs. Clicky here.

Now there's a reliable source :lol:

I could fill an entire section with my personal experience with those mobsters.

 

[Ignacio]

Now there's a reliable source :lol:
I could fill an entire section with my personal experience with those mobsters.

As opposed to an anonymous individual as a source on the Internet?

Feel free to share your other personal experiences about the EPA....on another forum. :lol:

 

[evil_henchman]

Now there's a reliable source :lol:
I could fill an entire section with my personal experience with those mobsters.

As opposed to an anonymous individual as a source on the Internet?

Feel free to share your other personal experiences about the EPA....on another forum. :lol:

Doh!