Father with family in SUV chased, beaten by speed-demon bikers

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funny, for a bunch of "bikers" that have no regard or respect for the law (based on the fact that key players have rap sheets, no licenses, etc), they sure do run to the LAWyers for protection. I say, you started this on your own rules, now you deal with it on your own rules. Lawyers have no place in their world. Let em suffer the consequences.

 
HotRodZilla said:
I tried to like that, but was told, "You have reached your limit of positives for the day." That being the case, I think I should be gifted some negatives to throw around also. Too many positives??? WTF? It's a conspiracy I tell you.
You guys think thugs are pissed that they are being grouped in with these assholes? I mean, even thugs have a code. Like pirates!
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I'll be happy to like that post for ya....

Lien stopped his car when the contact occured - what could you possibly imagine that all those punks were saying to him surrounding his vehicle when their man was down.... I bet they went off on him verbally and started pounding on the windows and scared the living shit outta him.... I feel horible for the guy that was helping the downed man but I'll bet that the surrounding party didn't help the situation one single bit, in fact their likely actions excalated and heightened the situation, Lien likely got so scared for his family's life that he did the only thing left possible, GTFO of the situation.... Mob of Thugs surrounded his car, by the looks of it he couldn't get out of his car to investigate the incident with all the thugs on the driverside as well....

Lets see, I'm in New York - I'm not allowed to protect myself or my family by having a weapon, the cops are minutes rather then seconds, if not days away..... Fuck It - I'm out !!

Personally - there is no way in HELL you could ever get me to live in fucking NY, much less even go there, I will go around that fucking communist collaboration of constitutional miscreants, shitting on the rights of the people day in and day out...

No different then California

 
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On a morning news station today there was a person who claimed to be among the pack of riders. He claims that many blocks back there was an altercation where Lein tried to get on a ramp ahead of the pack and may have bumped one of the bikes. That is their excuse for chasing him for many blocks and surrounding his vehicle the first time. So, the best they can come up with is that they were taking the law into their own hands and chased Lein down because he merged into their pack.

The scariest part of this is that the person saying this was talking as though he thought it was the right thing for them to do and he believed that public opinion would be swayed by this story.

 
Do you think they checked the VINs on these bikes as it relates to validity and ownership? I bet thats an interesting topic...

I'd love to know what Reggie 2 Finger's up there is riding these days and where he got his bike...

 
One way to look at Lein's actions is to look at the situation he was in, which was clearly threatening even before the brake job and rear tire bump. After the bump the situation's threatening demeanor escalated. Did Lein act in the way that a 'Reasonable Person' would have in that situation?

The reasonable person is a legal fiction of the common law representing an objective standard against which any individual's conduct can be measured. It is used to determine if a breach of the standard of care has occurred, provided a duty of care can be proven.

The reasonable person standard holds: each person owes a duty to behave as a reasonable person would under the same or similar circumstances. While the specific circumstances of each case will require varying kinds of conduct and degrees of care, the reasonable person standard undergoes no variation itself.

This standard performs a crucial role in determining negligence in both criminal law — that is, criminal negligence — and tort law. The standard also has a presence in contract law, though its use there is substantially different.

At no point in the incident were the bikers a neutral presence. The law does not tolerate any form of contact or violence as a response, other than personal protection and in most states even that level of response is restricted. Lien made some errors, but the bikers did not allow him to detach from the situation where they could have contacted the police and let them do their job. (Ya, right, call the police when many of them had previous court action against them and at least some had no driver's license.) As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have personal experience in a situation like this and I under stand what could lead someone to do what ever was necessary for personal protection. At no point could Lein know or trust the limits of what the intimidation and violence could be. In fact he was proven correct to attempt self-preservation when they pulled him out of his car.

Now we are finding out that 2-3 of the bikers were actually police and one of the police might have been a window banger. One of the police is being mentioned as a possible Sergent. Eventually the police involvement will shake out.

 
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Could it also be said, taking the Theory of Relativity and Law of Conservation of Momemtum into consideration, that the thug performing the "brake check" actually struck the SUV with his bike?

Did the SUV driver commit a concious act or just fail to alter his velocity enough to avoid colision with Mr. Cruz? I dont see where Lien changed the speed of his SUV in an unsafe manner until after he and his family were threatened with gang violence.

I think the SUV guy would have been better off not touching his brake pedal at all in the first place...he woulda just hurt the one guy who caused the problem, and coulda just said "I didnt see him... it all happened so fast"

Hell.. now that I typed that, I can say that at least 3 of the bikers woulda been better off not touching their brakes either...

Now ask yourself which party clearly had the choice to slow thier vehicles or not...

You can break this down to it's simplest form... Which party KNOWINGLY changed thier velocity and position in traffic to affect a result.... that result, regardless of intent, being the one that began this chain of events?

And then... guys that suffered no damage from the initial contact, willingly chose, to illegally detain, and then physically harm the SUV driver, his family and his property... no question of fault there either...

 
"An undercover New York police detective at the scene of the beating of a driver by a pack of angry motorcyclists is seen on video attacking the SUV, police sources familiar with the investigation tell NBC News.

The sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the video shows the undercover officer banging on the rear window and shattering it. The victim is then seen being pulled out of the car and the undercover rides off, sources say."

https://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv?lite

 
chivvalry said:
"An undercover New York police detective at the scene of the beating of a driver by a pack of angry motorcyclists is seen on video attacking the SUV, police sources familiar with the investigation tell NBC News.
The sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the video shows the undercover officer banging on the rear window and shattering it. The victim is then seen being pulled out of the car and the undercover rides off, sources say."

https://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv?lite
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I love NYPD's BS response to this. Something along the lines that the officer could have "blown his cover" by the actions he either took or did not take. How's about that idiot remembers he is first a cop and second an undercover criminal. Maybe...MAYBE stepping in would have caused him issues, but I don't see that really happening. What would have happened if he would have just kept riding on the freeway and never went to the termination point? No cover blown that's what.

So, to maintain his cover, he decides to get in the fray and break out the back window? He couldn't just stay with his bike away from the entire thing and not be involved? This is how we know his "undercover" alibi is total bullshit. He couldn't get involved to prevent the beating and knifing from happening because it may compromise his cover. He could however, jump in and join the group. That apparently would not compromise his cover. Right...

Anyone else remember when the news reported they guy was off duty and the ride was not part of any investigation he was doing? That means he was simply going along. Blowing his cover had nothing to do with it. He was taking part in being an asshole and ended up on video. If not for that, he never would have come forward. If what I'm thinking is true, they should hang that guy by his nuts because it's inexcusable.

Don't get me wrong...I don't trust the news as far as I could kick them. I have been on the shit end of the media stick and it's not pretty. They have a knack for purpously getting things wrong to make it sound more exciting and sell stories. They don't care about the truth, they care about what sells, and drama sells. So...some of what the news says has some basis and the rest may be junk. NYPD has a responsibity to investigate their own guy, as well as the others and treat everyone the same. If he screwed the pooch, he needs to face the same consequences.

 
This is one of those times when I will proudly stand with the grouchy guy from Albuquerque. What is that slogan the police use? To Protect and to Serve?

I think know that all police officers do not have the personal integrity of HotRodZilla. I would expect that a public servant would remember some sense of right and wrong.

 
chivvalry said:
'bout time....
"An undercover New York police detective seen on video smashing the back window of an SUV during an attack by a pack of angry motorcyclists was arrested Tuesday on charges of riot and criminal mischief after surrendering in Manhattan, police said."

https://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv-is-charged?chromedomain=insidedateline?lite
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This is the sergeant who said that he was a bystander and left the scene before it got violent. All those video cameras sure are making a difference to see what really happened.

 
Still in the investigation stage but this is interesting:

<snip>Two other police officers who were also riding with the group that day. One of whom was a sergeant. That's a supervisor and another of whom is a detective, who is a police officer who is undercover in internal affairs. The irony there is that's the group that enforces police discipline and misconduct have come forward or notified the department about their intention to come forward, and they're going to be sat down and (asked), 'Where were you, what did you see, what did you do, what did you not do, why did you wait to come forward'."</snip>

 
This really shouldn't be that surprising. Who do you suppose would seek out employment as an undercover cop in metro New York? Someone who is reserved, law abiding and primarily interested in "Serving and Protecting" the public? Or a loose canon thrill seeker who enjoys flirting with the edge of legality?

I'm pretty sure that these cops were just all too willing participants in the hooligan "event" and that it had nothing whatsoever to do with any ongoing investigations, undercover or otherwise.

 
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Warpdrv said:
Lets see, I'm in New York - I'm not allowed to protect myself or my family by having a weapon, the cops are minutes rather then seconds, if not days away..... Fuck It - I'm out !!

Personally - there is no way in HELL you could ever get me to live in fucking NY, much less even go there, I will go around that fucking communist collaboration of constitutional miscreants, shitting on the rights of the people day in and day out...

No different then California
Click to expand...
Amazing how you can totally offend 34,500 members of the NYPD and 8,345,000 NYC residents with a single sweeping, bigoted, overexaggerated, uneducated statement! It is actually hilarious coming from someone who is from Milwaukee which has literally 3 times the violent crime rate of NYC......

 
TheAxeman said:
Warpdrv said:
Lets see, I'm in New York - I'm not allowed to protect myself or my family by having a weapon, the cops are minutes rather then seconds, if not days away..... Fuck It - I'm out !!

Personally - there is no way in HELL you could ever get me to live in fucking NY, much less even go there, I will go around that fucking communist collaboration of constitutional miscreants, shitting on the rights of the people day in and day out...

No different then California
Click to expand...
Amazing how you can totally offend 34,500 members of the NYPD and 8,345,000 NYC residents with a single sweeping, bigoted, overexaggerated, uneducated statement! It is actually hilarious coming from someone who is from Milwaukee which has literally 3 times the violent crime rate of NYC......
Click to expand...
No, that would be 34,494 members of the NYPD. The news reports that at least 6 of the thugs participating in this "rally" were members of the NYPD.

 
The good cop is becoming a rarity these days. They are becoming militarized and more brutal as each day goes by. The brotherhood hardly ever crosses the blue line and will cover for each other. This is still becoming a bad situation all around. I am sure Lein is not as inocent as everyone would like to believe here also. Two wrongs are still wrong.

Sorry Zilla, but I speak from experiance.

Nuff said,

 

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