Motorcyclist Review of 2014 Electronic Suspension

[MCRIDER007]

So what about for a guy that's 250lbs? These bikes are setup for an 180lb guy, is the ES worth the money or should I save the coin and just do custom suspension? I could always set the dial to 2 up or 1 up with luggage to compensate for the extra weight from all my muscle mass. I don't ride 2 up so I don't need to worry about that. The advantage of the ES over custom suspension is the ability to change on the fly. Run it in comfy mode for the slab and bump it up to sport for the twisty's.

Good questions! The problem with every OEM suspension is that one size is supposed to fit all and there isn't any shock spring that is going to adequately cover the 150-450 pound load range available on the FJR. Spring rates are the most important suspension component and I think the aftermarket suspension's option to select spring rates specificially for the rider(s) and riding style far outweighs the ES's ability to make minor damping adjustments on the fly. As stated, the OEM spring rates probably are designed for lighter riders so I expect they will get a better result from the ES than heavier or 2-up riders.
My experience with aftermarket suspensions is that once dialed in they work well with all road surfaces and riding conditions, the only time I have felt a need to change the damping is when there is a large temperature change.

I am going to disagree with you a bit there. I think spring rates are only one aspect of suspension, and not the most important. Though the farther from 'ideal', the harder it is to compensate. I also have enjoyed my aftermarket suspensions, though I have never been able to dial one in so that it works well in all situations. I still find trade-offs between comfort and sport. IOW, you can have one or the other, but not both. Much like for a car.

My guru for suspension, Peter Verdone, says that the tires are the most important suspension component, but the ES only changes the spring preload and the spring(s) damping. Since damping's purpose is to complement the spring and needs to be adjusted whenever the spring rate changes, its hard to make an argument that damping is more important than the spring rate......at least to achieve an ideal suspension setup. Once the spring rate is selected and installed, its fixed and then you have to use damping and preload to get the best you can with what you have to work with. I think the ES spring rate is going to be far from ideal for loads over 300 pounds and the ES's inability to change rebound and compression damping independently is going limit the benefits from changing spring rates.

As for the trade-offs between comfort and sport, suspension's main objective is to keep the tires in contact with the road, and the better job it does at doing that, the smoother the ride and the better the ride quality. If you read Ducati's description of what its new electronic Skyhook system is trying to achieve, its actually describing what what every suspension system is attempting to accomplish. Very soft suspension may feel very comfortable on a short ride but rocking and rolling for several hours is much more fatiguing than riding on a suspension that resembles the Skyhook system. Nevertheless, suspension is always going to be a compromise for any rider due to changing loads, road conditions, and speed (especially speed) but that compromise is actually a compromise of spring rates and the compromise of a one spring size fits all for all conditions is going to be a bigger compromise than the ability to make small damping adjustments on the fly (although it would be pretty cool if you could change the 4 damping adjustments independently of each other rather than having to move all 4 in the same direction).

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I just love it when we get into suspension discussions. Trying to say definitively, "This is how the suspension should be" is an exercise in futility. Even among top level racers riding specialized machines around a known track and weighing almost the same, every body has their own setup. No one can agree on the "Perfect Setup".

I think Yamaha has done an outstanding job with their standard suspension given the compromises they have to make. Balancing the unknown weight of the purchasing rider, the fact that the saddlebags may or may not be loaded, or may not even be on the bike, will it be ridden two up, will it be ridden mostly on the interstate, will it spend its life leaned over dragging the footpegs, what brand of tires, what type of tires, all these questions add up to: How in the hell does a suspension engineer make the chassis perfect for everyone? They have made an attempt to tailor this "One size fits All" motorcycle work even better by adding electronic suspension. So, in spite of the fact that we know Yamaha had an impossible task we still condemn their efforts before we have even ridden the bike?

I think I'd rather watch Desperate Housewives than read this crap.

 

[SkooterG]

Bah humbug! Who pissed in your Wheaties RFH?

So go out and buy one already!

I agree with you, there are many ways to skin a cat when it comes to suspension, and for the vast majority it will work great!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Christmas has me so broke I cannot afford Wheaties or milk and I certainly cannot afford the buy in for this wonderful motorcycle. Scrooge and the Grinch are my favorite Christmas characters anyway.

My point is that we condemn and bitch Yamaha's efforts but if we were forced to ride someone else's idea of "Ideal Suspension Setup" it would probably be even worse. It is just impossible to make some folks happy.

Merry Christmas. Dammit.

 

[HotRodZilla]

I think too many people whine about suspension, spring rate, rebound, dampening, and the "perfect set-up" when . ey have no idea what they're whining about.

"Oh, I need a certain set up for the twisties, and another for a bumpy road, and another for the interstate..." Give me a break. Yet one more thing to jump on the bandwagon and gripe about.

 

[PhilJet09]

Merry Christmas. Dammit.

That made me smile.

 

[leclairk]

The only thing I do know is the suspension on my 06' is completely inadequate for my fat ass. That thing groans every time I sit on it. The good news is it sounds like both routes ( ES vs Aftermarket ) have some advantages. That's more that I knew before I read this topic.

 

[Chiefblueman]

I just love it when we get into suspension discussions. Trying to say definitively, "This is how the suspension should be" is an exercise in futility. Even among top level racers riding specialized machines around a known track and weighing almost the same, every body has their own setup. No one can agree on the "Perfect Setup".
I think Yamaha has done an outstanding job with their standard suspension given the compromises they have to make. Balancing the unknown weight of the purchasing rider, the fact that the saddlebags may or may not be loaded, or may not even be on the bike, will it be ridden two up, will it be ridden mostly on the interstate, will it spend its life leaned over dragging the footpegs, what brand of tires, what type of tires, all these questions add up to: How in the hell does a suspension engineer make the chassis perfect for everyone? They have made an attempt to tailor this "One size fits All" motorcycle work even better by adding electronic suspension. So, in spite of the fact that we know Yamaha had an impossible task we still condemn their efforts before we have even ridden the bike?

I think I'd rather watch Desperate Housewives than read this crap.

All due respect RFH, but why aren't you watching Desperate Housewives instead of reading this crap? Could it be you've already watched the series?

I have and I'm not proud of it.

I have no experience with the '14 ES but have spent time on a BMW R1200GSA and a RT1200, both with ESA, one up and two up. I found the sport mode most to my liking on both machines. Comfort mode was just not comfortable for me. I seldom changed suspension settings under way. I did not go off road but suspect the ESA's adjustability would be more appreciated going from on to off road and vice versa. Selecting between one or two up was nice for addition of a passenger, no tools required.

I do know this, adjustable bad suspension, electronic or manual, is still bad suspension. The suspension on my Gen 1 was surprisingly poor with only 17k miles on it. No amount of preload or damping adjustments could cure its flaccid, undersprung for me, suspension. AK20's and a Penske with proper springing made all the difference in the world. Also lightened the ol' wallet considerably. Like any suspension, it's a compromise. The way I have it set up now, it's a little harsh at the rear on sharp edged hits solo but handles two up very nicely. Not worth getting the spanner out. I have modded suspension on dirt bikes and street bikes. My experience has been the same for all - damping and preload adjustments don't conquer poor springing.

I think, and hope, Yamaha has made improvements to the quality of suspension on the new machines. Looks like they're catching on that most of us that ride FJR's weigh a bit more than 165lbs. The ES option can only help the FJR to be better at what it does best - to meet the needs of a broad range of riders. It may not be the best sportbike or touring rig but it sure covers the bases quite nicely. I would love to ride the A and ES back to back but I don't want to risk my happy home by presenting Mrs. Chief with a beautiful red addition to the fleet. The suspension questions for me would be - is this good enough for me stock, either A or ES? Should I save the coin on the ES and mod the A? Should I get the hell out of the dealership before Mrs. Chief kicks the door open brandishing her Streetsweeper?

No bashing Yamaha here, kudos to them for offering an attractive option to an awesome bike.

I don't post a lot but spend a lot of time here. I feel like I know many of you. Merry Christmas to you all!!! May Santa see fit to leave a new ES in many of your stockings

 

[art miller]

Thanks Chiefblueman for the good tidings! Santa treated me well with a new ES this year.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

ON TOPIC:

This morning I handed Pop a cup of coffee and this magazine opened to this article. He sat in my living room in front of my fire and read the entire article in spite of the chaos around him and the the lights of the Christmas Tree reflecting off the pages. He looked up from the magazine and his eyes had that far away stare... He asked me, "How much do you think they would give me for a trade-in on my '07?"

I (honestly!) responded, "I don't think that is a good idea. I would wait until they add a 6th gear, punch it out to 1400 cc, and change the color to a nice blue or silver." I have a little trouble getting into the Christmas spirit sometimes.

 

[mcatrophy]

... I have a little trouble getting into the Christmas spirit sometimes.

You can't kid us, we know the real reason is that you don't want him spending your inheritance

.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

... I have a little trouble getting into the Christmas spirit sometimes.

You can't kid us, we know the real reason is that you don't want him spending your inheritance

.

Hah! Well played!

Unfortunately that topic gets less amusing as Pop ages. We do discuss it though and it usually ends with the resolution to spend a couple of extra days on next year's motorcycle adventure. I always run out of money before Pop does so as long as he can cover a couple extra nights on the road, we are good.

Pop likes the idea of Cruise Control, Heated Grips, Traction Control, and different Engine Maps. I just don't see him parting with his '07. He loves that thing.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, you take the '07 from your dad and help him set up a 2014. There's NOTHING wrong with any year of the GenIIs, or the GenIs for that matter. You'll have a really nice, well cared for bike with a known history, and your sad will have CC. See? I am a problem solver...

Merry Christmas you bunch of gurls!!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Well, you take the '07 from your dad and help him set up a 2014. There's NOTHING wrong with any year of the GenIIs, or the GenIs for that matter. You'll have a really nice, well cared for bike with a known history, and your sad will have CC. See? I am a problem solver...
Merry Christmas you bunch of gurls!!

I hope you know I already thought of that. The problem is that his '07 FJR is easier to get rid of than my '04 ST. Dammit.

He knows he will never wear out his '07 but he does like the idea of a '14 with modern touches. This article sure painted this bike in a positive light.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, you take the '07 from your dad and help him set up a 2014. There's NOTHING wrong with any year of the GenIIs, or the GenIs for that matter. You'll have a really nice, well cared for bike with a known history, and your sad will have CC. See? I am a problem solver...Merry Christmas you bunch of gurls!!

I hope you know I already thought of that. The problem is that his '07 FJR is easier to get rid of than my '04 ST. Dammit.

He knows he will never wear out his '07 but he does like the idea of a '14 with modern touches. This article sure painted this bike in a positive light.

So what if the FJR is easier to get rid of. The ST might be harder, but not impossible. Stop making excuses and let someone else baby the blue beast. Get yourself an FJR if you want one. Don't sweat the petty shit and don't pet the sweaty shit. Hell, make life super easy and trade that sumbitch in for your dad's bike. That covers part of your payment.

 

[dcarver]

"Nevertheless, suspension is always going to be a compromise for any rider due to changing loads, road conditions, and speed (especially speed) but that compromise is actually a compromise of spring rates and the compromise of a one spring size fits all for all conditions is going to be a bigger compromise than the ability to make small damping adjustments on the fly (although it would be pretty cool if you could change the 4 damping adjustments independently of each other rather than having to move all 4 in the same direction)."

Until suspension computation systems are smart enough to learn 'on the fly' based upon normalized parameters defined by the rider, I'm not interested. And they must somehow adjust spring rate, compression/rebound damping for high and low shaft speeds. Anything else is just a compromise.

Give me points, kickstarters, magnetos and manually adjustable suspension systems for now.

:fuck:

Hugs n' Kisses

 

[bgross]

Well, you take the '07 from your dad and help him set up a 2014. There's NOTHING wrong with any year of the GenIIs, or the GenIs for that matter. You'll have a really nice, well cared for bike with a known history, and your sad will have CC. See? I am a problem solver...Merry Christmas you bunch of gurls!!

I hope you know I already thought of that. The problem is that his '07 FJR is easier to get rid of than my '04 ST. Dammit.

He knows he will never wear out his '07 but he does like the idea of a '14 with modern touches. This article sure painted this bike in a positive light.

So what if the FJR is easier to get rid of. The ST might be harder, but not impossible. Stop making excuses and let someone else baby the blue beast. Get yourself an FJR if you want one. Don't sweat the petty shit and don't pet the sweaty shit. Hell, make life super easy and trade that sumbitch in for your dad's bike. That covers part of your payment.

Being in the Christmas spirit and all, I took a look at the KBB trade-in prices for the 04 ST & the 07 FJR: $4415 & $5470.

So Pop trades your ST in on a new FJR and you buy his 07 for $1100.

Just trying to make everyone's dreams happen. (It always seems easier when I use other folk's money)

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, you take the '07 from your dad and help him set up a 2014. There's NOTHING wrong with any year of the GenIIs, or the GenIs for that matter. You'll have a really nice, well cared for bike with a known history, and your sad will have CC. See? I am a problem solver...Merry Christmas you bunch of gurls!!

I hope you know I already thought of that. The problem is that his '07 FJR is easier to get rid of than my '04 ST. Dammit.

He knows he will never wear out his '07 but he does like the idea of a '14 with modern touches. This article sure painted this bike in a positive light.

So what if the FJR is easier to get rid of. The ST might be harder, but not impossible. Stop making excuses and let someone else baby the blue beast. Get yourself an FJR if you want one. Don't sweat the petty shit and don't pet the sweaty shit. Hell, make life super easy and trade that sumbitch in for your dad's bike. That covers part of your payment.

Being in the Christmas spirit and all, I took a look at the KBB trade-in prices for the 04 ST & the 07 FJR: $4415 & $5470.

So Pop trades your ST in on a new FJR and you buy his 07 for $1100.

Just trying to make everyone's dreams happen. (It always seems easier when I use other folk's money)

Yup...Buying stuff with someone else's money and not having to feed their kids makes it veeeeeeeeery easy!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

We are drifting way off topic and I hope we don't suffer a Rule 10 violation.

These dollar figures seem solid but reality is that very few folks want to buy a Honda ST1300 since the design never changed in its 10 year lifespan and that lifespan has expired. The ST1300 is no longer in production. That detracts from its desirability. And it never sold as well as the FJR. This has to factor in when making a deal. Our favorite local dealership had an '08 ST1300 brand new on their floor for 3 years without selling. They would be reluctant to take Ole Blue.

Pop and I have several "Irons in the Fire" right now and we are both holding our money pretty close. We both really like the look of the '14 and the ES package just sweetens the idea. Truth is, we both want that '14 ES.

Neither of us ride these bikes to their potential. Sure we scrape our pegs every so often and yes the front wheel is not always touching the pavement but we are older amateurs and we know it. We can go anywhere we want on the bikes we already have with complete confidence and happiness. Not paying a bike note gives us more traveling money and less guilt when we go. Also, it did not look like those "Outdated Gen1s" were struggling in this year's IBR...

But. I want one dammit. And this stupid article with its stupid high quality photos did not help at all.

 

[bergmen]

... I have a little trouble getting into the Christmas spirit sometimes.

You can't kid us, we know the real reason is that you don't want him spending your inheritance

.

Hah! Well played!

Unfortunately that topic gets less amusing as Pop ages. We do discuss it though and it usually ends with the resolution to spend a couple of extra days on next year's motorcycle adventure. I always run out of money before Pop does so as long as he can cover a couple extra nights on the road, we are good.

Pop likes the idea of Cruise Control, Heated Grips, Traction Control, and different Engine Maps. I just don't see him parting with his '07. He loves that thing.

And he would love a Gen III even more. I'm 64 and not getting any younger and I decided to go for a 2014 A model. And yes, the cruise control, traction control, heated grips and drive mode are the freakin' bomb.

And the color, wow, the color. Just eye popping.

Dan