Oil

[Ignacio]

Corn oil, olive, extra-virgin olive, canola, and sometimes even peanut oil if I'm stir-frying. Maybe even a dash of sesame oil as an additive.

But I would never use Crisco. That product is reserved for a completely different activity.

 

[twowheelnut]

If you're nice, I might be able to cram a few gallons of your fav in the Merc Harley Hauler® with a delivery at WooFoo. But just you, I ain't running the Exxon Valdez here.

Thanks for the offer, but I've grown accustom to the 20W-50. Plus, if that barge spilled it's contents, I'd be liable for the clean-up!

 

[FlyingLow]

What? You all too ritzy for a freakin Wally World in your part of the world?

Ran both Wally and Target out. No big boxes 'cept for Home Despot. Our auto parts stores have become retailers of spinny hub caps, air fresheners and cell phone accessories. Maximum suckage here in Hoity-toity Mayberry.

Goober wouldn't stock any of the good stuff at his gas station, right? :lol: .

 

[twowheelnut]

Goober wouldn't stock any of the good stuff at his gas station, right? :lol: .

No, but there are a couple of transplanted Samoan surfer dudes with some righteous smok, er, 'good stuff' in their greenhouse - about the only thing 'stocked' here.

 

[Toecutter]

Shell Rotella, Delvac 1300, and Chevron's Delo all come in 15W-40 grades. All are widely available, in-expensive, and highly rated.
Pretty close to 20W-40, no?

And Costco (ya know, THAT evil place that sells 40 AA batteries for $11.00?) carries the Delo for $8.00/gallon (you hafta buy six).
Throw in a cup o' EOS syrup (like I do) and it's even closer to 20W50

No, but there are a couple of transplanted Samoan surfer dudes with some righteous smok, er, 'good stuff' in their greenhouse - about the only thing 'stocked' here.

Can you have Mrs. Nut haul a bit o' that to the event, not unlike Rad's offer (except maybe a bit more unlawful)?

 

[Mike-H]

Corn oil, olive, extra-virgin olive, canola, and sometimes even peanut oil if I'm stir-frying. Maybe even a dash of sesame oil as an additive.
But I would never use Crisco. That product is reserved for a completely different activity.

Another shining example of a truly bent mind....but I like it....

 

[twowheelnut]

Shell Rotella, Delvac 1300, and Chevron's Delo all come in 15W-40 grades. All are widely available, in-expensive, and highly rated.
Pretty close to 20W-40, no?

And Costco (ya know, THAT evil place that sells 40 AA batteries for $11.00?) carries the Delo for $8.00/gallon (you hafta buy six).
Throw in a cup o' EOS syrup (like I do) and it's even closer to 20W50

No, but there are a couple of transplanted Samoan surfer dudes with some righteous smok, er, 'good stuff' in their greenhouse - about the only thing 'stocked' here.

Can you have Mrs. Nut haul a bit o' that to the event, not unlike Rad's offer (except maybe a bit more unlawful)?

Costco? Er? The one place I haven't checked! Thanks Toe, I'll see about the transportation across state lines. Don't hold your breath, though... Oh, wait, you already are.

 

[jestal]

I knew you guys were waiting for this.....

Don't get too upset over oil viscosity. The oil and lube guys have a general statement that "the engine makes its own viscosity" to stop any arguements about the fine points of viscosity, least the arguement go on forever.

The thicker the oil is in the bearing the hotter it will get until it thins out to the point that it stops generating heat from being sheared and then it stays at that viscosity. The thinner the oil is in the beginning the less heat it builds thru shear and the "less thinner" it gets. So...once the engine is up and running the engine will pretty much make the viscosity that it needs.

A bit of an oversimplication and you could argue the exceptions forever but fundamentally it is true and shows up repeatedly in high speed and high load endurance and dyno testing. This idea does sort of put a damper on the fervent, religous like decision on which oil viscosity to use....LOL.

Situations requiring very cold ambient cold starting are critical for viscosity simply due to the friction of the cold oil in the bearings (much higher shear loads) and lowered cranking speeds. This is sort of out of the range of the discussion at hand since most people aren't coldstarting their motorcycles at -40.

Lots of people worry about oil flow when cold and obcess about all the "wear" that is occuring on cold starts due to the supposed lack of oil flow or the oils pumpability ratings. It really is a moot point. There is residual oil in the bearings and it is (presumably) as cold as the rest of the oil. So it is pretty viscous also and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. A hydrodynamic bearing makes its own oil pressue so if there is oil present there is oil pressure to maintain the bearing film thickness. The cold oil in the bearing will start to heat up quickly due to shear but it hangs around plenty long for the oil pump to get more there.

The engine only relies on oil pressure to supply oil to the bearings. The oil pressure that is read on a gauge from the oil pump is simply the supply, not an idication of the actual pressure in the bearing film so the oil pressure on the guage just means the oil pump is working.... Changing oil viscosity to gain pressure is really pointless as the pressure is just the supply pressure and increasing it by changing or adjusting viscosity is just adding pressure by adding restriction to the system. It does not change the oil film viscosity inside the bearing. See paragraph one. An engine makes its own viscosity.

 

[twowheelnut]

An engine makes its own viscosity.

That's so friggin' logical... Things ya learn.

Thanks, Jestal. :good:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

If I may be so bold as to try to follow jestal's technical comment (all of which I agree with): an added plus/minus to the light/heavy oil issue is -- not only does the heavier oil get hotter, it probably doesn't flow around as well and thus doesn't do its share contributing to any oil-cooling.

Two things I've seen: A Porsche with an oil temp gauge that always ran hotter temps w/heavy oil and cooler temps w/lighter oil. And a Honda 125 twin hi-perf (for the 60s) street bike that said on the dip-stick, "Use 10/30 oil"; which the owner did. On a weekend group ride with big American V-twins and Brit-bikes (that all had a hard time finding oil heavy enuff) -- well, you know who was among the first group of finishers....!

 

[jestal]

There is some proven logic in the idea that the heavier oil might run hotter. In the ranges of viscosity mentioned here (15W40 vs. 20W50 for example) the gross oil temp affect on the temperature as measured in the sump is likely to be small, though....maybe a few degrees. Nothing to get upset over.

The "thicker" oil might flow around less but it also travels thru the cooler slower getting cooled a little more in the process so the effect on cooling is less than expected. The faster flow of the lighter oil thru the cooler means the inlet temp of the cooler is closer to the outlet which makes the cooler more efficient. That explains why the faster flow with the thinner oil is also a little bit better for cooling

In one case I remember looking at a 4 cylinder car engine was run hard on the track and was pushing the upper limits of oil temperature at 305 degrees F. That was with 10W30 conventional oil. We replaced that with 5W30 synthetic Mobil 1 and the oil temps did drop slightly down to the 295 range. In a way this is picking the fly shit out of the pepper. But it did keep us below a critical point at 305 where the cam phasers would start to act up hydraulically...so it was worth it. The 5W30 was a little thinner spec-wise compared to the 10W30 and the synthetic 5W is a little less viscous than the mineral 5W would have been. Synthetics have a flatter viscosity curve vs. temp so they are usually a tiny bit thinner base stock when compared to a same weight conventional oil. Nothing about this makes synthetics any better or worse a decision as this particular engine was being run 10/10's on a race track constantly. Not really comparible to a passenger vehicle operated on public roads. But the difference is there and can make a slight difference.

I should have mentioned in the oil pressure comment that oil pressure requirements are driven mainly by the operating RPM and the diameter of the crank main bearings. The oil is pushed toward the center of the crank from the main feeds so the oil pressure must be high enough to overcome the centripital force that is trying to sling the oil back down the passage. Once the oil reaches the center of the crank the centripital force propels it toward the rod bearings so oil pressure no longer matters. Most oil pressure "requirements" are based on old wive's tales and grossly over estimate the necessary oil pressure. But, since it is better to have too much oil pressure than not enough, it is best to err on the high side...LOL.

Basing oil viscosity and pressure requirements on what is quoted from race engine experience is also misleading. Race engines can run the oil extremely hot, have different clearances and always want to err on the high side. Race engines running alcohol or nitro can have the oil seriously diluted by the fuel which dictates a heavier viscosity than one would normally expect. So....don't base your oil specs on what racers use.

 

[Groo]

Lot's of good stuff from Jestal....

So if I'm understanding you correctly, If I see 5W-40 Rotella T Synthetic on the shelf at Wally world, I won't turn my engine into a time bomb by using it during the next oil change?

 

[jestal]

Lot's of good stuff from Jestal....

So if I'm understanding you correctly, If I see 5W-40 Rotella T Synthetic on the shelf at Wally world, I won't turn my engine into a time bomb by using it during the next oil change?

I doubt that it would care at all.... It wouldn't be my first choice (this is a religious experience afterall) but the engine would be fine. The gearbox action might change slightly but I doubt that it would be significant.

 

[Groo]

The gearbox action might change slightly but I doubt that it would be significant.

Change in what way? Rougher, smoother, more clunky, less clunky...? What if I added that magic STP gloop... that would help... right...? :lol:

 

[Rogue]

Change in what way? Rougher, smoother, more clunky, less clunky...?

It would reverse the shift pattern, thats how they do it on race bikes!

What if I added that magic STP gloop... that would help... right...? :lol:

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Mike-H]

Lot's of good stuff from Jestal....

So if I'm understanding you correctly, If I see 5W-40 Rotella T Synthetic on the shelf at Wally world, I won't turn my engine into a time bomb by using it during the next oil change?

I doubt that it would care at all.... It wouldn't be my first choice (this is a religious experience afterall) but the engine would be fine. The gearbox action might change slightly but I doubt that it would be significant.

All hail jestal.....Master of all oil knowledge.....we're not worthy....we're not worthy....(I really liked the religious experience part) k: .....or as the younger members of the forum would say...."Your the man"....

 

[fjrchik]

Jestal - r u comin to WFO??? I just have to meet u!!

 

[Scab]

Lot's of good stuff from Jestal....

So if I'm understanding you correctly, If I see 5W-40 Rotella T Synthetic on the shelf at Wally world, I won't turn my engine into a time bomb by using it during the next oil change?

That's all I ever run. Gearbox is plenty smooth. So smooth that I cannot tell any difference. I rode FJRfencer's '06 and noted many differences, but none in the gearbox. My FJR is still happy with near 14k on her.

 

[Sherman]

Jestal - Let's make this simple.

What oil are you running in your FJR?

Same all seasons?

Thanks!

 

[jestal]

Jestal - Let's make this simple. What oil are you running in your FJR?

Same all seasons?

Thanks!

15W40 Delvac....which is Mobil's version of Rotella. That is in pretty much every motor I own.

What if I added that magic STP gloop... that would help... right...? :lol:

I'm pretending that I didn't see this......................................................