reliability bragging rights take a hit

[supertankerm60a3]

Well, this one is a strange one. (pop is defined and 1 cylinder firing)

The bike is 1.6 miles into the reserve. I am getting ready to go to church and hit the start button

crank crank crank crank pop crank crank crank. Oh oh.

Hmmm. Lean bike to right, switch key off and on 3 times maybe I got air in the fuel system.

Crank crank crank crank crank crank crank pop crank crank pop crank crank.

Stand bike straight up, cycle switch off and on several times again. Fuel pump might be running a little long, might not. Either way it sounds OK, no unusual tones the the pumps wine. Try again.

Crank crank crank crank crank crank crank crank crank crank.

Gotta go. Go into back yard, get Ninja 250 that has been homesteading in my garage for the past 6 months for everything from loud knocking to not idling, it belongs to a friend of a friend, I don't even know who owns it. Ride it to church.

When I get back, I start looking at what's up with Silver. Start by adding a gallon of gas, just in case and putting it on the charger.

Crank crank crank pop crank crank crank.

What's this? Screen shows a 14 not the time it has been cranking slow I wonder what the 14 means, but the clock hasn't reset so my voltage can't have dropped to low. Let us go consult the wonderful wizard of google, right after I disconnect the battery and reattach the charger.

"Mr Google? What is a 14 code on my FJR mean?"

(large flames! loud thunder!)

"Your intake manifold air pressure sensor in not reading as expected. Your FJR is ABLE to start, your FJR is ABLE to drive."

"But Mr. Google sir, it won't start at all.

(LARGER FLAMES!!! LOUDER THUNDER!!!)

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Go back out re-connect the battery crank... no change. I'll call my buddy and ask to borrow his Concourse to go to work Monday (Last Friday my truck broke down too). five minutes after that, I think to put it into DIAG mode. Crank crank crank crank pop crank pop pop crank pop vrooom! OH WTF YOU ROTTEN BEAST!!!

Now it starts fine. I hope you ll enjoyed the read. Now, any ideas? Any at all...

 

[garyahouse]

It's Thanksgiving. Maybe that explains it?

Based on the fact that you put in some gas and then eventually she fired up, I'm guessing that your issue was related to something I don't understand. If this were a bike with a normal petcock with it's regular and reserve orifices, it would seem that one was clogged. However, I know nothing about the FJR's system. Hoping somebody with some understanding of the FJR's tank posts up, I'm curious.

Gary

 

[FJRay]

Sounds like the typical semi flooded I need midol reluctant to start Gen 1 syndrom.

 

[Donal]

This is a recurring theme. It has often been described as a 'semi flooded' syndrome because that is just what it acts like. It usually occurs if the bike has not been allowed to warm up after a longish shut down. However, this condition seems to persist for weeks or even months after the initial short run.

I am beginning to think it's something in the ECU. My SWAG is the ECU is programmed to overfuel during the initial cranking period. Something tells the ECU that a satisfactory start has been achieved (who knows what that is), and then the ECU is reset.

If the bike doesn't run long enough to 'reset' this condition then it remains in static memory until the next attempt. It may even accumulate an additional overfuel signal (some sort of stack memory)?

I have no idea how to verify or eliminate this idea but I do believe it is electronic...............................

Oh! and just in case anyone thinks altering the ECU to eliminate this annoying problem is easy, have a look at the first post in this link

 

[Fred W]

Fast Starter Syndrome?

Never been associated with an error code 14 before though.

 

[NMRoadRunner]

your truck and then your motorcycle. Bad JuJu, Bad Karma, So what'd you do?

 

[ionbeam]

...hit the start button crank crank crank crank pop crank crank crank...it sounds OK, no unusual tones the the pumps wine...Start by adding a gallon of gas, just in case and putting it on the charger...Screen shows a 14 not the time it has been cranking slow I wonder what the 14 means, but the clock hasn't reset so my voltage can't have dropped to low..."Your intake manifold air pressure sensor in not reading as expected. Your FJR is ABLE to start, your FJR is ABLE to drive."Now it starts fine...

The FJR seems be prone to flooding like no-starts, but it is prone over the number of units sold, not the same bike over and over. Some things have been noted around a no-start incident like parking the bike when real hot then not riding it for weeks, starting the bike then immediately shutting it off, a weak but not bad battery. The bike almost always responds to treating it like a flooded condition -- (with the battery in a good state of charge) hold the throttle wide open and crank in short bursts of a few seconds each, it may take more than 5 tries but it will catch and run, and run like there was never a problem.

You did the right thing to put a charger on the battery.

Your Gen I has both an Intake Air Pressure sensor located at the left end of the TB rack and an Ambient Air Pressure sensor under the seat. Both can be unplugged at the same time, the ECU will use default pressure maps letting the engine start and run just like it would if they were plugged in. I have done this when troubleshooting my FJR. The ECU looks at the difference between the two sensors to derive one of the 'terms' used by the software to trim the fuel injection shots. If your engine was cranking slow the Intake Pressure sensor would see the pressure too low and in your case it was enough to cause the fault number to pop up. Since you know how to access diAG you can check fault history to see if anything else had been recorded.

Your FJR needs love, not hate; nurturing, not punishment. There, isn't that better

The two of you just need to go on a nice ride while your truck recovers.

 

[jmgrif]

Not sure if this relates but, here in the Great White North we're about about to change horses. A friend who just did his oil/filter etc. for winter storage had left his bike in the carport for the last few days. It's been a little cool -10 c overnight and a few degrees warmer during the daytime. He tried starting the bike to move into his garage but it wouldn't start? Similar cranking, and then pop? He uses 20/50 oil, ask him I don't know why? Anyway with jumpers we were able to get the bike to finally start! It's an 07 and may have the original battery? He is the second owner so has little background re some service records? My only comment after this long dissertation is, it seemed as if his battery could do the job but the cranking had a far greater urgency without the popping while jumping? New battery for next season.

 

[supertankerm60a3]

Semi flooded seems to be the accurate description of the way it sounds. Next time, I will put it into DIAG mode right away as that seems awfully co-incidental that the first (long) crank after I set it to that, it started. Perhaps DIAGnostic mode stops the cold over-fueling. Either way, Silver is grounded until Wednesday while I show my friends Concours to potential buyers.

Tomorrow (Tues) I will put my new alternator on the truck.

 

[JamesK]

I had an intermittent Intake Air Pressure sensor (located at the left end of the TB rack) on my '07 which would, when the bike was cold on colder days trigger the engine warning light and the Error Code 14 on the LCD. Like Ionbeam said the bike will run with ok with this fault, but the idle while cold can be a bit rough. Also, since in my case the sensor problem seemed to go away when the engine/sensor was warm, a few times in diagnosing/confirming this sensor as the ultimate culprit I'd shut off the engine after only a few mins or running from cold. At this point the error code would not show up, i.e. the ECU saw something from the sensor but that value must have been bogus because the fueling was totally wrong and the bike would not idle at all until warmed up...and yes you could smell the excess fuel hence the idling problem, since revving the engine up over say 2.5k rpm would make the bike run ok as it was able to use the excess fuel.

Anyway, all is back to normal after I replaced the Intake Air Pressure Sensor.

 

[Constant Mesh]

One wonders if fuel is getting into the throttle bodies via the fuel pressure regulator and its vacuum hose which is teed to the TB's and MAP sensor. Shouldn't be any way for fuel to enter the vacuum line but who knows?

 

[wheatonFJR]

So...have you been bragging about reliability and your friends watched you try to turn it over? Or what?

 

[Fred W]

Semi flooded seems to be the accurate description of the way it sounds. Next time, I will put it into DIAG mode right away as that seems awfully co-incidental that the first (long) crank after I set it to that, it started. Perhaps DIAGnostic mode stops the cold over-fueling. Either way, Silver is grounded until Wednesday while I show my friends Concours to potential buyers.
Tomorrow (Tues) I will put my new alternator on the truck.

DiAG mode does not alter the fueling, or cold start enriching. It just allows you to see what is going on behind the curtain. So yes, it was a pure coincidence.

But next time, now that you are fore-armed with all of the vast experiences of the Fast Starter Syndrome, you'll know what to do, right? Just whack the throttle WFO after the first no-start and before the battery is depleted to the point of inadequacy.

We don't want you developing a reliability inferiority complex or anything, right?

 

[Yroundrdn]

thanks for the info Ionbeam. I had the same thing yesterday. Needed to move the bike out of the garage, bike had sat last week due to rain but I usually ride it daily. Pop, no start. I thought it was due to sitting on the side stand which I usually never do. Now I see that was not the issue.

I put a booster on the battery, held the throttle open 1/4 and it started 3rd try. I knew it was flooded, just couldn't figure out why.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Let's say one couldn't get a flooded engine to start...... would disconnecting the battery then reset the ECU so it wouldn't "think" it had all that bad input info that caused it to richen the fuel?

 

[dcarver]

1. Get a rope.

2. Connect one end to FJR

3. Connect other end to Ford F350

4. Set F350 to 30 MPH

5. Release clutch in 3rd gear on Gen1 Yamaha

6. Turn key on

7. Turn kill switch to On

8. Only do this when video cameras are running

9. and AFTER consuming mass quantities of Whiskey

Yer welcome, SupahTanker!

 

[wheatonFJR]

How the hell is this supposed to help him with his ego?

His reliability bragging rights have taken a major hit, man!

 

[lnewlf]

1. Get a rope.2. Connect one end to FJR

3. Connect other end to Ford F350

4. Set F350 to 30 MPH

5. Release clutch in 3rd gear on Gen1 Yamaha

6. Turn key on

7. Turn kill switch to On

8. Only do this when video cameras are running

9. and AFTER consuming mass quantities of Whiskey

Yer welcome, SupahTanker!

I generally start Fords with my Silverado 2500....little much for a FJR, don't you think?

 

[Fred W]

Let's say one couldn't get a flooded engine to start...... would disconnecting the battery then reset the ECU so it wouldn't "think" it had all that bad input info that caused it to richen the fuel?

No, I don't think so. The FJR ECU isn't advanced enough to have anything like an adaptive memory, like most automotive ECUs have. Our simple ECUs just do what they do based on the sensor inputs at that particular moment in time.